News and Notes

Hosted by AmericanTrails.org

NTTP meeting notes: March 19-20, 2009

Minutes of National Trails Training Partnership meeting:
Asheville, NC, at the 2009 Trailbuilders Conference

March 19, 2009

ATTENDEES

Stuart Macdonald, NTTP Program Manager for American Trails
Pam Gluck, Executive Director, American Trails
Roger Bell, American Trails Board
Nathan Caldwell, US Fish and Wildlife Service
Christopher Douwes, Federal Highway Administration
John Holol, Rhino Markers - jholol@rhinomarkers.com
Gerry Wilbour, PTBA - northwesttrails@hotmail.com
Donna Vondle, US Army Corps of Engineers, Townsend Lake Park Ranger - donna.m.vondle@usace.army.mil
Kim Frederick, Jefferson County Open Space and Chinook Associates
Walt Bready, Georgia Trails and Greenways - wbready@gsc.edu
Steven Mullins, SORBA
Clay Grubb, Tahoe Rim Trail Association - wcgrubb@aol.com
Scott Linnenburger, - slinnenburger@gmail.com
Tom Chamberland, US Army Corps of Engineers, New England District - thomas.a.chamberland@usace.army.mil
Susan Stormer, S and S Trail Services LLC - susan@sstrails.com
Mike Riter, Trail Design Specialists, LLC - mike@traildesign.com
Dan Hudson, IMBA Trail Solutions - danhudson@imba.com
Peter Jensen, Peter S. Jensen and Associates, LLC - petersorenjensen@gmail.com
Chris Bernhardt, Alta Planning + Design - chrisbernhardt@altaplanning.com
Jill Van Winkle, IMBA Trail Solutions - jill@imba.com
Jason Wells, IMBA Trail Solutions - jason.wells@imba.com
Richard Edwards, IMBA Trail Solutions - rich@imba.com
Greg Schuster, Durham County, NC - gschuster@durhamcountync.gov
By phone: Jan Hancock, Arizona Trail

Introductions and NTTP Presentation

Pam Gluck welcomed attendees and thanked FHWA for hosting the meeting.
Food was provided by Professional Trailbuilders Association.
Stuart Macdonald gave an overview of NTTP for all those who have not been to a NTTP meeting before, and showed the updated NTTP PowerPoint presentation.

Training Opportunities, Concerns, and Ideas

Getting kids involved and trained for outdoor resources work

Scott Linnenburger - Has moved from IMBA to new work on designing, building, planning bike parks. Largely municipal, some private. Opportunity from a trail perspective to reach kids in the middle of towns and cities where we don't usually think about trails. Prime kids to have a desire to go out in the back country, to learn about nature, public lands, and stewardship. Even though the facility you develop is very contrived, it's an outlet for outdoor recreation to encourage them to use their brains as well as their muscles. that kind of exploration is available in smaller, more developed areas, not just in the national parks and forests. Think about how you reach out to kids and give them some education in schools and playgrounds. Reaching kids, not just young adults, with trail education
Christopher cited a trail project in Spanish Harlem where it will displace all kinds of illegal activity. A way to create new activities, bike jumps, enable kids to use part of the woods.
Clay: the way you teach kids about the outdoors is to help them get out and experience it.
Peter Jensen: training is a long process. It's not just something you do once. Is there a way , thinking from contractors perspective, to hire people who commit to a two or three year stint. We either have projects funded to allow us to train them in house, work with us on projects, and at the end of the time they have real skills to pass on. In the 1980s there was a drain of skills going out of the federal agencies. Collectively we need to recreate that level of skill as a society. There are fewer of us who know the older skills, not just the technology that many younger people are excited about. We need to get young people deeply interested in working outside, stewardship. In theory, US Dept of Labor is involved in funding too.
Kim Frederick: maybe there is an opportunity for contractors with rec trails money or other funds to include a training element in trail projects. Or incorporating youth into your project for grant application. Not only employ young people, but teach them. For instance, has the opportunity to augment Jefferson County summer youth employment program on trails and resource work with additional funds from state and federal sources.

Youth corps and volunteer efforts

Gerry Wilbour: in northwest, there are a lot of trail workers, experienced people from the forest service. They also have a lot of experience working with youth crews and volunteers. What bugs me about the stimulus, they are really overreaching with the youth corps part. speaking as a business person, as the economy improves, I look forward to building trails all over the country and beyond. But if you just hire youth corps for the next two years and the stimulus ends, then what? But if you merge the employment possibilities of the private contractors with the corps model, they'll have jobs in the future.
Clay Grubb: Tahoe Rim Trail-- think we're looking too narrowly. How about bringing contractors out to work with volunteers. Think in terms of how do we run an integrated team efficiently. Corps gets assigned to you under contract, you take them to training, environmental requirements are covered, we're finding on the training sign that integrating the players and knowledge we gain.
Kim: volunteer weekend warrior is another model. That could be a level of successful training where people learn to be effective volunteers. There is also a critical level of professional trail contractors. How many people have worked with land managers who don't have the skills to manage trails?

The apprentice model

Peter: Potentially thousands of people could be trained. But a shallower effort could train tens of thousands of people. With five partners, what if we could add three trainees, we could do a lot more work while developing 15 new professional trail builders. It would be just another step from hybrid contracting. Some projects require use of volunteers. it includes training, but the deliverable product is the trail work. The staff has a full week in the field doing design work for a trail to be completed, at the same time training is done.
Scott: We seem to have lost the idea of apprenticeship. In structure of SCA or a corps, they do too many other things. Best way is to work with trail professionals. Agency people also do too many other things. Way to reward a professional, small business person, to take on a person to really develop their skills to a professional level. But if a contractor could hire promising labor, and develop their skills, they could move into a position of being a crew leader and an agency staff. They can pass on a lot more when they have more to give.
Gerry: trying to keep up with technology. If kids don't see a pathway to a future in the outdoor world, to really be engaged in the job, to understand it, they won;t see where that path leads to.
Tom Chamberland: problem with stimulus funds, it has to meet federal wage rates, the fine print of the contracts, how do formal apprentice requirements enter in? A lot of contractors just won't deal with federal requirements, well maybe this year. Wondering if we're reaching out to the right parts of the government. Maybe HHS and dept of Labor.

Skills development

Mike Riter: need for the big picture training, but frustration with trail care crew is we're here and gone tomorrow, but expectations of what you learn are pretty low. Need a way to teach more in-depth skills. Moving on to creating new training that is even more in depth to enable people to be. You need to learn skills as you use them, not like a language you never use and forget. If you don't use it you don't retain the intricacies.
Peter: it's not just one training mode. they all need to be happening. Need a ladder of opportunities for training and employment. I think there is going to be an unbelievable amount of work coming up. As we move more to a society that wants outdoor recreation and is interested in the environment. We have to be ready to meet the demand. The stimulus is going to prove that-- we won't be able to deal with the demand and the amount of money. Internships are another way. Several get a lot of requests for internships.
Clay: the classes are a good start, but once you get out in the field you start to really understand the work. But 11 weeks in the field does teach a lot. Need to run integrated training to involve all of the skills, plus to get to know all of the people you need to know. work more efficiently by knowing the capabilities
Gerry: Another problem is there is no criteria for hiring people for trail staff jobs. It's a career path training. Agencies need to recognize trail skills as professional capabilities. Right now the bar is set so low.
Kim: so it may not matter about our skills as much as getting people in land management positions who both know and care
Stuart: State trail programs are not always very knowledgeable about trails, and we're working to expose them to lots of variety of trail development and management issues.

Future needs and funding

Scott: it's great that the stimulus has driven this discussion. But a lot of comments starting to focus on whether it's really going to help trails. go out and spend, give the economy a stimulus, or is it going to be a real investment in the future. This conversation and dealing with the funds may drive some more creative thinking in how we deal with the needs for the next 10 or 20 years.
Some plan to create "term" positions for seasonal funds
Stuart: look at the history of the trails and volunteer organizations. People have been building terrible trails for a long time. Our goal should be to raise the level of skills, to mobilize better training to build better trails.
University and community college training. Parks and recreation curriculum where people learn to do a better job as park managers.
Christopher Douwes: Transportation Enhancements program is going to continue, according to agency heads. Instead of raising the education cap, what if we incorporated workforce development as a desirable attribute of Recreational Trails Program projects?. You get a higher federal share or other incentive. Provide incentives to incorporate workforce development as a routine element of both TE and RTP projects. In SAFETELU states may use an unlimited amount for workforce development, training and educations, at 100% federal share. If we could make it easier to have educations. Right now it's up to the states-- they can encourage by criteria scoring. Or eliminate the cap on educations instead of at 5%.

March 20, 2009

ATTENDEES

Stuart Macdonald, NTTP Program Manager for American Trails
Pam Gluck, Executive Director, American Trails
Christopher Douwes, Federal Highway Administration
Donna Vondle, US Army Corps of Engineers, Townsend Lake Park Ranger - donna.m.vondle@usace.army.mil
Kim Frederick, Jefferson County Open Space and Chinook Associates
Walt Bready, Georgia Trails and Greenways - wbready@gsc.edu
Scott Linnenburger, - slinnenburger@gmail.com
Tom Chamberland, US Army Corps of Engineers, New England District - thomas.a.chamberland@usace.army.mil
Steven Mullins, SORBA
Greg Schuster, Durham County, NC - gschuster@durhamcountync.gov

Discussion on goals and training needs

Stuart - Challenge with NTTP is that people at the meetings change, and the issues keep evolving. One role for NTTP is to provide a forum to explore current issues. funding not just with Transportation and enhancements, but with BIA, AmeriCorps, and smaller federal agencies like FWS and Corps of Engineers as well as larger agencies, NPS, BLM, and USFS.
Kim: more course development
Scott: could be the focus of our discussion today; first and best chance to work more training into the system
PTBA concerned that money down the pike has to be spent so quickly, and lack of quality in rush to put people to work. Or giant management company would end up taking on biggest amount of funds. PTBA members have lots to do to strengthen the partnership and build more quality trails with training as part of the work.
Greg- environmental education in urban environment, bringing outdoor rec and land preservation closer to home. Works with Triangle off road bicycle Association

What organizations are doing for training development

Steven - SORBA got involved in maintenance of trails, took trail training course and ended up as trail director for RAMBO group for seven years. Responsible for training and skills courses. Then started a trail building business, and now with SORBA trail building arm (Pro Trails). Interesting trend where trail users become trail builders, just like IMBA Trail Solutions.
Walt - Kurt Loheit NOC trail camps, then in Mike Riter's classes, work parties where you learn as you go, and to larger work days. Got job for trails education, challenge was putting together information for a curriculum. IMBA offered their presentation materials and used IMBA book for textbook. Crew leader training is another topic that could use more material. Starting to customize material to make it useful for youth group training and other special needs. Looking to deliver training where it's needed. NTTP website promotion has been good. Looking to develop or modify curriculum to meet the needs. Also teach people onsite as part of technical assistance for planning and trail system design.
Kim - Working with Volunteers for Outdoor Colorado as well as groups that are part of CYCA. Common elements for leadership and trail work as well as GIS/GPS, weed management. Some training is embedded in projects. With Jeffco Open space, manages seven full time trails people as well as hundreds of young people for two month summer youth program that does trail work and other resource management. Training and information we share with others now is fundamental to the success of the trails community.

Trail projects and skill development

Tom Chamberland - Attended last two National Trails Symposia. What got his interested was working on a trail project that was funded as a earmark through TEA in New England. Got the job of partnership person. Found his lack of training in anything to do with trails was a problem. With support of his manager has gotten more involved in trails. Grand Trunk trail is becoming a 66-mile corridor through the region. Series of rail trails on land already owned by public agencies. Just lack the oversight to create an umbrella organization to link all the parts into a real system. Hope to help others in Corps and in the state. Intends to look at ways to help corps managers to see value of local or nationally-based training.
Donna - Two small projects in Vermont. Working with Peter Jensen who is a contractor with them for projects. The Friends group got a grant and they were able to hire Peter. Besides regular trail, has a 36 mile "trail of trouble" a former rail corridor.
Corps recognized the need for staff to focus on resources and recreation. From a recreation point, we obviously went with water. But the concept of trails is really attractive to the public yet we haven't focused on it nationally. If the corps is going to be more participatory, that has to be fostered in Washington, that trails are important throughout the system. Local managers have authority to spend money on trails, which is a shift from just flood control. Tom presented trail projects at Corps rangers conference. Corps has an internal grants program to encourage partnerships which can be used for trail materials as a match for outside funding. Has also gotten trained in UTAP so he can teach rangers about trail accessibility issues. Whole calendar of events around trails and water with "Source to Sea" coalition of conservation and recreation interests.

Training needs

Two types of training are necessary-
- the value of trails, benefit to health, community, and livability
- training for agency personnel on trails as part of job performance; grants, trail management, visitation - maybe trail professionalization committee should address. Agency and state people could then benefit
Information needs to be compiled on value of trails
NC and Georgia states have done studies showing monetary benefits of trails (cost benefit)
Christopher:
- traditional on the ground training; we know that, we just need to get it to the people coming up
- another necessary training is reaching out to the higher level staff with training on the value of trails to the agency. could be a short course or even a presentation
- economics - it's what we do at the trails conferences; but maybe we need to distill it. Bring this information to IACT. We even need a higher level, like deputy secretaries. Federal people may recognize it's part of their mission.
- nonprofits also need to see value of training - states - Congress
Pam- brainstorm with the higher level federal people who do get the trails need and benefit
Stuart - with new agency senior staff, e.g. Will Shafroth, get them to help cheerlead the need and benefit of trails

Committee topics and tasks for Partners

Trail Professionalization Committee (Scott Linnenburger)

- identified issues and concerns which are broad based throughout the trails community
- has been a general topic with PTBA members at this conference
- how can we set a better standard for trail work
- however, there is a wide variety of types of trail development and services, as well as evolving skills
- how do you empower volunteers who have developed their skills to a professional level?
- need to do continuing education among professionals as well as long-time volunteers
- bringing a more professional knowledge of trails and public access facilities to federal, state, and local land managers
- helping get money spent in more effective ways through better grant development and management
- working with states to improve skills of grant project sponsors
Committees: add:
- Kim Frederick
- Jan Hancock - can help with messaging

Educational Outreach (Walt Bready)

- Embedding training in the culture of trail development
- Developing more advanced training modules to follow Trails 101
- Coming up with common curriculum and practices for trail skills: is that too large of a task? For instance, crew leader training, you almost need a guide to regional differences
- Finding colleges and courses with trail content to create a higher education curriculum for trails
- Researching trails issues and synthesizing key information to share with trails community to do a better job on resource protection, user awareness, and environmental education

Conclusions and tasks

Kim: exploring national model for training opportunities based on COTI/OSI in Colorado and bringing it to other states.
Christopher: some states might look regionally, like New England. In Colorado you can work in partnership with state trails programs. We've been trying to help states see this as a priority, and the professionals within their states, that doing trail design, construction, and management properly should be an important priority. Using state RTP funds. Economic stimulus funding-- nothing for training specifically. Emphasis should be on long term.
Kim: training new instructors is a really vital component; we need to that on a regional level. Then we can build on that premise, like Tread Lightly does with "train the trainer." And even then you may not have the resources or time to share the information.
Christopher: close to home training is still the most important way to reach more people by eliminating travel costs. More and more agencies as well as organizations don't have any travel budget or authorization. The challenge is the states that don't have other resources, or is not big enough to support their own training programs.
=topic for STAM
Greg: need to get elected officials to see trails systems as essential to local economies.
- Need concise summaries of key benefits and economic impacts of trails
- Write a brochure on benefits or material they can take with them
- Develop presentation materials like powerpoint page
Showing resources on website: online clearinghouse for training and related educational resources
Challenge is to help people find things, be able to find training and learn more about the specific topics they're interested in.
Stuart: American Trails wrote and sent out to 10,00 contacts the first in series of email newsletters on training: promoting opportunities, resources, and NTTP. American Trails Magazine will be going to online version, which will enable people to follow links from articles and ads to more information on specific topics they are interested in. Working to update the Skills area on the website; would appreciate any assistance.
Workforce development as part of project funding, but states should have more flexibility

Next meeting: June 12 in Washington, DC area hosted by Nathan Caldwell at Fish and Wildlife Service offices at Ballston Metro in Virginia.

Meeting adjourned at 12:45 p.m.

Notes submitted by Stuart Macdonald

See the list of NTTP Steering Committee members and a comprehensive list of agencies and organizations supporting the National Trails Training Partnership.

Related pages:

News and Notes

NTTP meeting notes: March 19-20, 2009

ATTENDEES

Introductions and NTTP Presentation

Training Opportunities, Concerns, and Ideas

ATTENDEES

Discussion on goals and training needs

Committee topics and tasks for Partners